Macstories:
While the original Fantastical was a companion to the full Apple iCal experience, Fantastical 2 reinvents itself as a full-blown calendar client that retains the most important aspects of the app’s debut and adds a whole new calendar interface to the mix.
You can’t swing a dead cat today without hitting any number of (at least a dozen so far) reviews of Flexibits new version of their popular calendaring app but, at $50, you better be really serious about needing a calendar app.
Very disappointed they don’t even mention upgrade pricing from version 1 in their FAQ. A simple “No, we don’t offer upgrade discounts.” would have been at least an acknowledgement!
Actually, it’s much worse than $50 if you have multiple iOS devices, because you have to buy a separate app for each.
Thats only true if you have several different iTunes accounts. You can install the same purchased app on every iOS device that shares an iTunes account. And this story is about Fantastical for MAC, not iOS, but the same goes for Mac, as long as you buy from the app store, not straight from Flexbits.
I think he’s talking about it not being a Universal app. Buying the iPhone app and the iPad app and the Mac app… that adds up!
Ah. That makes more sense. Yes, thats true.
I use Fantastical 1.3. It’s quite a good app. The menu bar entry is what I use it for. I still use Apple’s calendar app on the Mac, and on my iOS devices.
Fantastical 2 looks nice. But since I’m not looking to dump Apple’s app, I’ll just stick with Fantastical 1.3. The $20 I paid for it was worth it for me. The $40 more to upgrade for 2.0 not really worth it so long as 1.3 still works.
If in the next OS update, Fantastical 1.3 no longer works, I’ll have to reassess, and also compare the benefits of upgrading an old license of BusyCal to the current version, as I understand it’s added functionality to the menubar, similar to Fantastical.
True, but so does the work involved to create and maintain versions for different platforms. If you want an app to be supported and maintained in the future, then it’s gotta cost more than a few dollars.
How many dead cats do you swing, Jim
Oh I agree that $50 is probably the price that needs to be charged for the sake of sustainable development. And judging from reviews, it seems to be worth the price tag.
But it’d still be a biiiiig chunk out of my yearly app budget. The iOS apps are within the range of ‘impulse purchase’, the OS X version decidedly less so. I’ll see how long I can resist the temptation xD
I’ve found some problems with the new version but I suspect that they will be short lived. The folks at Flexbits are the real thing and are responsive to customers.
Did they not? It’s the first thing in their FAQ now: https://flexibits.com/fantastical/faq
“At $50, you better be really serious about needing a calendar app.”
The tone of a comment like this just stokes the already healthy fires of disdain, among consumers, for fairly priced software. It’s reasonable to observe that yes, the app costs $50, and that some people will be unwilling to pay it. It doesn’t help the community of developers, users, or this wonderful site itself, to include wry jabs about the price in an editorial comment.
I wish more journalists would contribute to the job of putting reasonable pricing into perspective. It’s easy to blow $50 of course on a movie with your family, but movie reviewers rarely say “but at $50, you’d be really serious about needing entertainment.”
Posts like this are a total disservice to the community.
Why?
I don’t think Cesar meant his remark as a reply to Daniel. I think he’s talking about the post at the top.
My ‘Posts’ were referencing the articles like this one, on the loop.
Yep!
I agree then. People have been conditioned by the app store to pay $1.99 for software and $5.99 is expensive. Problem is almost no indies make money on the app store now, they are taking advantage of the fact developers like building software and will do it for nothing.
That’s exactly the problem the community is facing today. As Daniel greatly stated, the media has a key hole into changing this general belief of ‘expensive’ software, but they keep missing opportunities to do so.
Then you haven’t read many of my movie reviews. 🙂
And I feel I am “putting reasonable pricing into perspective.” $50, for me and a lot of other people, is a lot of money. For most people, it’s a lot of money for “just” a calendar app (and I recognize Fantastical will be described as “more than just a calendar app”).
I see no problem pointing out to Loop readers, before they go to a very long article (and where the price isn’t mentioned until the very last line and where the reviewer doesn’t seem to disclose he was an early release tester of the app) what the price of the app is ahead of time. For some, that is too much to pay and they wouldn’t click through. For others, that price point is not a barrier. Regardless, it’s a necessary data point.
You reading a particular negative “tone” into my comment and seeing it as a “wry jab” is you making assumptions not based on facts but on your preconceived notions. I can’t do anything about that if you are not willing to ask questions and inform yourself of my intentions ahead of time.
They added it after I contacted them suggesting they do. I’m glad they did!
Yup. I suppose most people “in the trade” are sadly familiar with the Mac App Store’s lack of upgrade pricing, so don’t necessarily think to mention it 🙁
Yes, though they offer purchase through their own store as well; they could have offered some way to verify existing App Store purchase, then offer discounts…I think that’s what Panic did with Coda? Rings a bell at least.
I know that in the end, they pulled Coda from the App Store entirely because of the sandboxing problems, and I’m sure there was a way of transferring the license. Having the “x% off” introductory sale seems to be becoming a pretty standard way of working around things, probably because it’s a lot simpler for the average customer. Coda’s target audience are a lot more likely to understand complicated things, I suppose!
I’m sad two people I deeply respect in the Apple community had a bit of a rough exchange on a matter in which I see both having good reasons and sensible ideas…
50 bucks for a calendar app are indeed a decent amount of money and there’s no wrong in pointing that out… no doubt that if you’re not serious about calendars you’re not going to buy it.
On the other hand, I clearly see and understand Daniel’s point, and I also have to say that I agree with him more on this… the development community (and on the long run consumers too), really need that authoritative people like Shawn try to put in perspective app pricing: Fantastical might be not cheap and not for everyone, but it is a great Mac app, carefully developed (design must have required a huge amount of time), so 50$ aren’t too much for it.
Imho you guys both have a point, too bad sometimes words take their own path, maybe not the one you’d like them to. For instance, mine could be sound very different from my intentions, but please excuse me in that case, since english isn’t my main language…
I am willing to pay a reasonable price for useful, well designed software and have done so. It feels quite manipulative to see all the reviews come out so fast, mostly praise and by people with incentives, justified perhaps, but definitely with their own dog in the fight. If a calendar app of this quality gives that kind of value to you, definitely buy it. Just to support the developer is not enough of a reason for most people. And I agree, $50 (albeit with an initial discount) is a lot of money for many people, and I appreciate your “tone” as honest. Blunt maybe, but I appreciate brevity and bluntness. That’s the other side of “time is money” and works for me.
You really have a point on all the reviews coming out at the same time, but this sadly is an increasing trend on major launches and applies not only to Fantastical: app developers often ask websites for an embargo on review until launch day, to make a big splash and climb App Store charts. Just in case we needed more proof that there’s something that isn’t working too well on the App Store right now… embargo makes sense if you’re Apple and you’re launching a new iPhone, not so much if you’re launching a new app, imho in that case a prolonged exposure (meaning, not all the reviews coming out the same day) would be more helpful for you and for readers too…
“had a bit of a rough exchange”
I don’t see it that way but then again, I’m a bit of a brute who doesn’t mind arguing with people.
To be clear, I respect Daniel and his work. That doesn’t make him (or me) immune to criticism or allows anyone to dish it out without response.
And I did put it into perspective – $50 is a lot of money to pay for an application that does calendaring. Whether it is a great Mac app or not, I can’t say, not having used this version (I did use the previous version).
And don’t worry, your post came across clearly – which I guess is more than I can say for mine or Daniel’s. 🙂
“It feels quite manipulative to see all the reviews come out so fast, mostly praise and by people with incentives, justified perhaps, but definitely with their own dog in the fight.”
Agreed. Not to cast (undue) aspersions to any of the reviewers but I agree it feels (and is!) highly manipulative. After all, ten days ago, most of these same reviewers’ web sites were trumpeting the news that Fantastical was coming out, giving the app a little PR boost for no good reason. Now come the tsunami of reviews, all carefully timed for maximum exposure.
And good for Flexibits’ marketing people – they did their job for their company. But bad on the Mac/Tech Media for acting as part of the PR team for Flexibits and going along with it. The feeling is the Mac Media isn’t acting as independent entities when these kinds of coordinated campaigns occur. That’s bad for the perception of integrity, if not for their actual integrity.
Perhaps but there’s a herd mentality going on – “Everyone is talking about it so it must be good!” – both in the Mac Media and the general consumer audience.
Shawn. 🙂
I totally agree with you, Shawn. $50 isn’t something you spend on a calendar app unless you really need a calendar app. And if you do really need a calendar app, go ahead and spend it. Where’s the controversy?
I can’t help but point out that The Loop got pre-release access to Fantastical when it was released on iPhone and wrote a glowing (and no doubt well deserved) review. http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/11/29/fantastical-for-iphone/
Jim’s review back then didn’t seem manipulative to me, and the press surrounding Fantastical’s recent launch doesn’t seem manipulative to me either. Instead, it feels like a great and newsworthy tech product being covered by tech journalists. Same as any other day.
People shell out $59 for PS4 games they’ll play for eight to forty hours, and it’s never mentioned in the review because that’s the cost of PS4 software. The problem is over the last couple years we’ve been fooled into thinking good Mac and iOS software should cost like a buck or two.
Real software developers are being destroyed by the artificially low prices of crapware vendors whose real product is selling customer to advertisers, and free games that are looking for addicts that’ll make them rich on in-app purchases.
-Wil
Because people assume, based on their past experience, that any comment about the price that wasn’t glowing would be a negative one.
I think you’re spot on, developers are so accustomed to complaints about prices, even very low ones, that are now a bit defensive. I read again your comment, and you actually didn’t say anything negative, but again I can also see why Daniel was afraid… it is tough out there for developers!
Fantastical is really bad. It’s too complicated and should not be available to Mac users…
this.
Nailed it.
I really hope you’ve reconsidered this enough to now feel shame, Daniel.
Hi Steven. I don’t feel ashamed of my comments. I think the criticism stands, and after having a few days to think about it I believe Shawn over-reacted to me. I’m sorry you don’t respect my position. In case I wasn’t clear in my original comment, it’s not pointing out the price that I have a problem with but that it was substantially the entire extent of his commentary.
“I’m sorry you don’t respect my position.”
But you expect and demand that we respect your position. Seems a bit hypocritical.
Once again Shawn, I’m afraid I don’t really know how to parse what you’re saying here. I don’t expect anything but to have a cordial debate comprised of words, facts, and opinions. I don’t demand that anybody “respect my position”, but if somebody is going to go out of their way, as Steven has done, to let me know that I’ve lost their respect, I am going to let them know that I’m sorry to hear it.
Hrm. I can see your point in thinking that was Shawn’s entire comment. I think you’re being unfair, since Shawn made the post… if he didn’t think it was a decent product, surely he wouldn’t have included the block quote that said it was.
But I understand your position a bit more, and thank you for explaining it. 🙂
“I don’t really know how to parse what you’re saying here.”
Dude…DON’T. My words don’t need parsing. There’s no hidden agenda or secret meaning behind anything I say. I say what I mean and mean what I say. Just take the words at face value and stop trying to ascribe your own thoughts and feelings about what my motives might be. I ain’t that deep. 🙂
Thanks, Steven.
Apple has actually forced Omni Group to stop offering discounts to App Store customers that switch to the direct sales version. Basically, there’s no way to win with the App Store and upgrades. And if you only give upgrade pricing to direct customers your App Store customers will murder you.
Thanks for the info, Wil. It’s too bad Apple won’t make basic changes to enhance the App Store.
I love your apps!
Your misinterpretation of Shawn’s original tone notwithstanding, it’s the colloquial usage of “I’m sorry that” for statements that don’t constitute an apology of any kind that I find amusing.
Moeskido, are you unfamiliar with the many non-colloquial, non-apologetic uses of the phrase “I’m sorry”?
Nope, I’m sadly familiar with a lot of them. Most of the examples I see these days are in public statements by people in positions of authority who’ve been caught saying something offensive or mendacious, but choose to avoid expressing genuine remorse.
“I’m sorry you didn’t understand me” is one potentially insulting way of not apologizing to someone.
Perhaps I misinterpreted your intent?
😉
Perhaps so! It has been known to happen. I accept the consequences. By the way it keeps coming up that I should somehow not have expressed my opinion because it was a misinterpretation of Shawn’s “intent” … but I maintain it doesn’t matter what his intent was, if the end result is so easily interpreted as failing to serve readers with a nuanced view of the issues. The crux of my argument from the beginning was that journalists have the opportunity and obligation to put things into better perspective than believe he did. I thought I was pretty tactful, all things considered, but of course as you remind me interpretation can vary wildly.