RIM calls Apple’s demo of Blackberry antenna issue ‘unacceptable’

∞ RIM calls Apple's demo of BlackBerry antenna issue 'unacceptable'

Posted on Saturday, July 17th, 2010 at 8:47 am. PT

During a special press conference held at Apple’s Cupertino, Calif. headquarters on Friday, Apple CEO Steve Jobs demoed how other smartphones also have the signal issues that have been closely associated with the iPhone 4. The demo didn’t go over well with RIM.

“Apple’s attempt to draw RIM into Apple’s self-made debacle is unacceptable,” said RIM’s co-CEOs, Mike Lazaridis and Jim Balsillie, in a statement. “Apple’s claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public’s understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple’s difficult situation.”

In addition to showing signal problems with an HTC Droid Eris and a Samsung device, Jobs also showed the problem on a BlackBerry Bold 9700.

Responding to its customers, Apple offered to give away a free iPhone 4 case to anyone that already purchased an iPhone and to those that will purchase one until September 30. Jobs said the company would re-evaluate it at that time.

“One thing is for certain, RIM’s customers don’t need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity,” said Lazaridis and Balsillie. “Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple.”

http://mangochut.net mangochutney

Now who’s deflecting?

I especially love this sentence:
“distort the public’s understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple’s difficult situation”

Let me translate it:
“distort understanding” = educate people about the difficulties of RF technology
“deflect attention” = explain with hard data the problems of an industry
“Apple’s difficult situation” = the mess they’re in, which we hope they’ll stay in

Classic, especially because of all the handsets mentioned, Jobs gave the highest praise to the BB Bold 9700

Charli

Bingo. They can’t use “We, unlike Apple, are perfect” after all. And they are pissed about it

Oh well.

http://www.noonedriving.com Howie

And by opening his big mouth in an attempt to dump more crap onto his biggest rival, all Lazaridis has done is draw more attention to the fact that his product suffers in the exact same way. Ridiculous.
http://www.thegraphicmac.com Jim

The folks at RIM are probably preparing for customer complaints to pile up now… since BB Bold 9700 users now have complete instructions on how to make the phone exhibit problems that would require RIM to replace the phone. LOL.

These companies sure had no problem pointing out Apple’s faults in full page newspaper ads and TV commercials, now they complain when Apple references them in a press event??? Pot, meet kettle.

http://mangochut.net mangochutney

The wonders of comparative advertising ^^

Fun fact: It’s been ten years (plus three days) since it has been declared legal in Germany due to an EU guideline.

http://bethmahoney.com Beth Mahoney

Apple needs to step up to the plate and fix this antenna issue with their iphone 4. Instead of trying to divert attention just recall these defective phones and fix them already..

http://mangochut.net mangochutney

Not really an issue.
Thanks for the suggestive profile thumbnail, though.
This and your site successfully diverted attention from your bad comprehension skills and your lame comment.
James Bailey

If you have an iPhone 4 with unacceptable signal problems, return it for a full refund. There is no need for a recall.
Charli

Yeah, they do. And the fix is really easy.

Dump ATT and set up their own cell phone company with top of the line towers on every block so there’s plenty for everyone.

That perhaps 1% of folks, 95% of whom are in an area with crap ATT coverage, are having trouble just shows that in fact there’s nothing wrong with the design of the phone. If there was, the percent would be a lot higher and would turn up everywhere, regardless of ATT

http://www.roofmaterials.org Lisa

All phones have problems. Not all phones have an exterior antenna on the side of the phone. There’s a fundamental difference here and Steve Jobs tried to put everything in the same bag to dismiss the iPhone issue.

http://mangochut.net mangochutney

It’s hard to disagree with what you said — especially when one has read John Siracusa’s take on this — but what I think Jobs’s presentation has shown, is that the issue isn’t worse than on other phones, despite the external antenna.
AND the external antenna has advantages over internal antennae in most other situations.
Chanson de Roland

Dear Lisa: While the iPhone 4 has a new exterior antenna, that does not make the common problem of attenuation any worse on the iPhone 4 than on other leading, modern smartphones, and Apple has got the goods to prove it. See http://www.apple.com/antenna/. So the iPhone 4′s exterior antenna is irrelevant at least in so far as making the common problem worse on the iPhone 4.

In fact, there is evidence that the iPhone 4′s exterior antenna handles the common problem of attenuated reception, when human skin is in close proximity to a smartphone’s antenna, better than the wildly successful iPhone 3GS. Anandtech found that the iPhone 4 had better reception in areas of weak signal strength than the iPhone 3GS, which everyone agrees has no problem with reception, other than the common problem of skin causing attenuated reception. See http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2. And at least with the iPhone 4, you know where the sensitive area of the phone is and can easily avoid it while grasping the iPhone 4 normally. With other phones you have to guess where there sensitive spot is located and will experience attenuated reception on those other phones without knowing that is occurring because you are touching that phone’s sensitive spot.

So Lisa, you are wrong in your opinion that the iPhone 4′s antenna is even relevant to this controversy and that the iPhone 4 external antenna is a distinction that makes the common problem of attenuation in the presence of human skin worse on the iPhone 4 than other smartphones.

James Bailey

Wow, talk about a carefully worded press release. I’m still looking for the part where they say that Apple is wrong about the attenuation issue on their phone.

Come on RIM, I dare you say that the BB Bold does not have the attenuation issue that Apple demonstrates in the video.
auramac

I’d love to see CR check out some other phones and come to the same conclusions. Waiting for the CR backlash- hasn’t happened- just yet.
Ian Davies

So, what RIM are saying is that the video Apple showed of the Blackberry losing its signal was actually faked, right?

Right?

http://mangochut.net mangochutney

Yes, their phones don’t abide to the rules of physics, because they’re fruit, and Apples aren’t

dave

Wow, I have a 9700 and have tried to disrupt the signal with all sorts of grips and got nothing. In fact, this is the first phone that I have never dropped a call on.

Ian Davies

Congratulations. There are just under 3 million iPhone 4 owners that share your untroubled ownership of a smartphone that doesn’t exhibit any signal attenuation problems.

http://kevinraffay.wordpress.com/ Kevin Raffay

I have a lowly Palm Pre, and while I envy my friend’s iPhones, I never worry about signal strength or dropped calls.

Yes, Pandora sucks on it, and I frequently can’t get to some web content, but I can always make a call without having to hold the phone in a weird angle.

I think my next phone will be an Android.

Charli

Yes but is that because your Pre is so totally perfect and awesome. or because it is serviced by a carrier that has awesome coverage in your area so even if you were only at a couple of bars, the calls go through fine.

http://www.thegraphicmac.com James

Sprint has 45 customers in the U.S. – so it’s quite easy to have decent coverage and prevent dropped calls!

http://mangochut.net mangochutney

Oh SNAP!
But you’re right, there’s less load in the individual cell tower

Chanson de Roland

Indeed, RIM and Nokia’s responses to Jobs’ press conference are carefully crafted legal statements, but if you read them carefully, none of their responses deny Jobs’ statement that their smartphones experience the same problem of attenuated reception as the iPhone 4 under the same or similar circumstances. And the reasons for that is straightforward: (1) Jobs’ statement that the problem of attenuated reception, when a smartphone’s antenna is in close proximity to human skin, is a common problem for all smartphones is true; and (2) If any of the smartphone OEMs were to deny the truth of that statement, the plaintiffs’ product liability bar would soon have them in court, suing them for selling a smartphone with defective reception, because by their representations, their smartphone isn’t suppose to experience attenuated reception but, in fact, dose experience attenuated reception when its antenna is in close proximity to human skin.

That is why none of the smartphone OEMs have denied Jobs’ statement that the problem of attenuated reception is an industry wide problem, though RIM certainly expresses the industry wide belief that it was unacceptable for Jobs to publicly make that statement.
Mou

Of course, I’ve read all this kerfluffle over the last few weeks, and the most interesting thing about it is that I’ve not had any issues with my iPhone 4 since it arrived via FedEx the day before they were in the stores. I use it without a cover, and I’ve duplicated the so-called “death grip” and experienced no signal loss.

Jim Dalrymple

I don’t use a cover either. Never have.

http://debono.com.au Joe Debono

Bring it to Australia already! Can’t wait to check this issue out for myself.
Mou

In the wake of the press conference (and probably before), it all seems like a tempest in a teapot. Current customers get cases or bumpers, Apple modifies the design a bit for the next wave, and life continues–end of story. Does Apple lose a bit of money? Sure, but they’ll make it back in about 2.35 seconds.
ViewRoyal

RIM & Nokia have responded to the evidence presented at the press conference as being false, and that they don’t have similar reception dropout problems.

Now who is not telling the truth?

Check out this YouTube video posted by a disgruntled Nokia mobile phone owner. This video was posted just a couple of weeks before the iPhone 4 went on sale:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amPG52DVQuk

http://mangochut.net mangochutney

They didn’t actually say, that their devices don’t have similar problems. If they did, they would be denying the effects of physics.

Thanks for the video BTW.

Kristen

Had ATT for 5 years. Dropped calls continuously no matter what phone I had for the moment. Gave up and went to Verizon, where I haven’t dropped a call since. So, the question begs to be asked again, is it the phone or the carrier?
lrd

Now everyone’s posting videos of other smart phones having the same issue or non-issue as the iPhone 4. I wonder if Consumer Reports is going to re-valuate its position now?

http://mangochut.net mangochutney

They should, because otherwise they’ll just appear biased to the average internet user.

I don’t think they will, though:
Firstly, because with many handsets the error isn’t as easy to reproduce; they don’t have that sweet spot.
Secondly, because main stream media most likely isn’t going to be reporting this like they did when Apple was still the bad guy. It just doesn’t generate enough clicks compared to a made-up scandal.

PXLated

Videos everywhere replicating the grip of death on Blackberrys – and a lot of others – Just a few I noticed tonight…

Incredible – http://bit.ly/aBNy9p

NexusOne – http://bit.ly/aii8kP

Blackberry Bold 9650 – http://bit.ly/adwj75

Palm Pre – http://bit.ly/aoGaCg

Blackberry – Several models – http://bit.ly/cMeg52

Nokia Eris manual – Yep, just like Steve Jobs said, don’t hold it that way – http://bit.ly/cbfHaQ

The interesting thing is Consumer Reports recommended a lot (maybe most) of the other offenders. So much for fair and balanced and their credibility.

http://mangochut.net mangochutney

I wouldn’t dismiss them this quickly. For one thing, the effect is harder to trigger on most other phones, if only by a bit.
The other thing is, that Consumer Reports in the US, just like ‘Stiftung Warentest’ in Germany, are not ahead of the times anymore, nor are their testing methods.
Ian Davies

Yeah, Gruber’s all over this too. It’s quite funny how Apple have managed to get all the other manufacturer’s knickers in a twist over this, even pushing them so far as to actually contradict their own user manuals, while never actually denying what Steve Jobs said.

Bobby

Junk. Absolute junk. From a crappy company. RIM has been making “smartphones” for quite a while and they still don’t have it right. My Curve was the biggest piece of crap I ever used. Not only did it not work when making calls, but it had no way to actually use the internet. RIM is just in disaster mode because their customer base is dwindling. Game over RIM, get used to it
Steve

This is the fundamental problem I had with the press conference: The videos prove nothing. I have a Blackberry Storm (Yes, it sucks, but the issue we’re talking about is the antenna). I tried to reproduce the problem (death grip) on my Storm and couldn’t. Why didn’t Steve Jobs do a live demo during the press conference. For all we know, the video was rigged. Think about it. Every demo Jobs does of his products is almost always live. Yet, for this one thing, it’s a video!? The press is surely stupid for not even asking. All of those Mac-head idiots are just sitting around satisfied. All it takes is Jobs giving each and every Apple fanatic a virtual doggie-biscuit and they’ll be happy. Talk about being naive and brainwashed with endless unquestionable devotion. I want to see a live demo of the antenna issue with “other” phones Jobs!

Ian Davies

This is the fundamental problem I have with arguments like yours: you are utterly inconsistent with the standards you apply to each side of the issue. If the videos Apple showed of other manufacturers’ handsets exhibiting antenna attenuation mean nothing, why don’t the videos of iPhones exhibiting this same behaviour, and which caused this whole thing to get out of proportion in the first place, also mean nothing?
If you are saying that the demos of the other handsets were likely rigged simply because Jobs usually demos their *own* products live (a logical fallacy if ever I heard one!) then why aren’t you also refusing to believe that the iPhone has a problem unless you visit all the people who posted videos on YouTube and demand a live demo from them?
Finally, we have everyone’s favourite ad hominem, the “Apple fanatic”. The crutch of choice for propping up every paper-thin argument against a conflated Steve Jobs/Apple “evil empire” that apparently commands armies of simpleton consumers who couldn’t possibly be choosing Apple products because of anything but moronic obedience.
Never let the awkward issue of “facts” get in your way.
Tommy

You know, I have a daughter who’s developed an irrational abhorrence to the fresh fruit from the apple tree. She is able to eat most any other fruit, is healthy, and lives an active normal life. But ask to bring me an apple from the refrigerator? Forget it! Offer her some home made apple pie? Nothing doing! Quite irrational, yes. But also quite harmless in the bigger scheme of things in life. So, go and GET A LIFE!

Steve

Ian, the fact is, I have friends that have the iPhone and they are able to reproduce that exact problem live. I think there’s a logical fallacy in your argument. The press, I’m assuming, is probably a neutral third-party (let’s hope). Why do you we need to have Jobs performing a “pre-recorded” demo? The press should ask the right questions and challenge Jobs. What Jobs did is like a “David Balne” impression. It looks all “real” on a recording, but let’s have him do it in front of a scrutinizing audience. The fact is: “I have had people reproduce that antenna problem right in front of me with their iPhone 4s.” And, other phones never had the results Steve Jobs showed. That is my point. You need to read things clearly. I stated that I was not able to reproduce it on my own non-iPhone phone and other people could reproduce the problem on their iPhones. Why don’t you go ahead and try it with a phone that’s not an iPhone and see if you get the same “scientific results” as Jobs. Why don’t you go ahead and take a little bit of your own advice? Maybe someone here is a closet Apple-fanatic. That’s why they’re so eager to label someone else’s argument as paper-thin.

Ian Davies

Steve, the fact is, I have an iPhone 4 and I am unable to reproduce that exact problem live. What’s your point? I don’t think you understand what a logical fallacy actually is, but nevermind.

You assume the press “is probably a neutral third-party”? Whoops! Better luck next time, Steve.

“The fact is: “I have had people reproduce that antenna problem right in front of me with their iPhone 4s.” And, other phones never had the results Steve Jobs showed. ”

Hmm, maybe you *do* know what a logical fallacy is, after all.

The fact is: inserting the words “the fact is” at the start of a sentence doesn’t magically validate it as the truth.

Apple used videos because, as clearly stated, this is a problem mainly in marginal reception areas. If *you* were to read things clearly (like, you know, the transcript of the press conference) you would know that Macworld’s Jason Snell raised this very issue, as he couldn’t do the “death grip” there. Jobs replied that it’s because they have cell towers on campus and get a very strong signal.

If holding the iPhone “wrong” causes 20dB of attenuation (for example) but you live in an area where your baseline signal strength is more than 20dB above the level where problems occur, then it won’t matter how you grip your phone.

Go read Anandtech’s analysis of the iPhone’s new signal strength mapping. It used to report 5 bars all the way down to -91dB. On the new scale, that’s enough to take you perilously close to only seeing 3 bars. There used to be only 3dB between seeing 4 bars and 2 bars. For people in strong signal areas, it makes almost no difference, but for some people it was possible to see huge fluctuations in reported signal strength for only a very minor change in dB.

The reason I’m inclined to label arguments (or more accurately, points of view) like yours as “paper thin” is because in spite of all the available information – from Apple, from Apple customers, from customers of other smartphones, and even from documentation like user manuals for other makes of smartphone which clearly state that attenuation will occur if you hold it in a certain way – in spite of all that, you are determined to hold on to your position that Apple are uniquely affected by this issue, and furthermore they are lying about it.

Obstinacy in the face of contradictory evidence (both anecdotal and empirical)? Sounds like a fanatic to me…