First of all, Apple Retail customers are the type that are willing to pay a little bit MORE for the advantage of having everything conveniently in one place (and having the support of trained Apple staff). For example, the average Apple customer could probably purchase the same things slightly cheaper if they shopped at BestBuy or Fry’s. The ones that buy at Apple Retail Store probably know they will pay full price, but will have the peace of mind of full Apple support should they need customer support or to return items. BestBuy and Fry’s cannot guarantee them anything. If you buy an iPod Touch from Fry’s and then something goes wrong, you are stuck in Hell.

People walking into the Microsoft retail stores are totally different. These people are the long time PC users that probably already are used to pirating software, and therefore they will not end up purchasing much from the Microsoft Retail Store at retail price anyways. The Windows corporate/business customers will go through a corporate sales channel instead, where they legally purchase Microsoft software at considerable discounts or subsidies.

Apple Retail customers and Microsoft Retail customers are completely different mentalities. Just because Apple Retail Stores can succeed brilliantly, does not mean that Microsoft Retail Stores can copy the same level of success.

However, like most, I could probably be bribed to sell Windows through gritted teeth for a substantial salary increase, but ultimately Microsoft will be buying popularity, not earning it.

That says more about the two competing products than any advertising campaign.

Then onto the cosmetics. I think Macs come in two colors right now Brushed Chrome and White…Now if I’m not mistaken PCs come in blue, pink, red, yellow, olive, brown, black, white with a little design on it, ect. So if anyone was going for the cosmetic piece you should definitely point a finger at your windows product.

Then also I’ve talk to many people who have made the switch from PC to Mac and a good number of them say that the only reason they only did the bare minimum on their computers before (emailing, word processing, and web browsing) is because on their PC they were 1 either not aware that their computer could help them do other things past the basics or 2 it just wasn’t offered…When people get Macs they find themselves using their machines more then they’ve ever had.

And I am currently studying computer engineering so I work with both on an every day basis so my opinion is not obscured at all.

Mac 1 PC 0

They believe that the retail store experience is part of why Apple now has a greater mindshare and a growing marketshare. Apple is no longer just that .5% of diehards that came to Apple for the creative stuff (Final Cut etc). Now they have another 5.5% and growing that are Mom and Pop and the kids. Companies are, shock, writing programs for Mac and porting existing ones way more than before. The Intel base in the Mac allows for Boot Camp so even things like “Retailers have to have a PC cause MLS systems don’t work on Macs” is bogus even if Apple won’t actually support Boot Camp and Windows in their stores but provide the utility “as a courtesy”. And even if folks think they are bogus, lying etc, everyone knows the I’m a PC/I’m a Mac campaign.

Microsoft is either going to improve their image and keep down the growing switcher number with this experiment in “giving them experts”.

Or it will do nothing but make some mall owners very happy to have had that space filled and thus some rent paid to them in these hard times.

Competition is great. But we all know Microsoft and they are just pissing in the pool.

now give me an article that asserts that X number of Zunes were sold on the first day, weekend, week, whatever and we can talk.

as for that last night. take your own advice

However, a store dedicated to Windows products is a different matter, regardless of them taking apple managers and the like on board. I think Microsoft will probably always be around, but they are one of those companies that no-one really cares about or indeed gets excited about when a product is launched.
I just don’t really see the difference from someone walking into PC World or some other shop would be any difference in terms of the hardware and software on offer then a Microsoft shop, oh perhaps the ex-apple staff of course and the layout set-up to mimic apple with Zunes and who-cares what else.

I dont really care about Microsoft, I don’t really care if they do employe apple staff, It doesn’t change the fact there products feel dull and lifeless (in my humble opinion).
- Like any other shop that holds no personal interest, to me walking into a Microsoft store would be the same as walking into a shop that sells plastic bags. Yes they are usable, yes they are sold as a convenience, but they are not interesting and they are not.

Apple /vs/ Microsoft will go on for an age, and its funny to watch the shit fly from its /fans/. Im neutral in so much I choose apple because I love the OS, i enjoy the enthusiasm in products and the desire to move forward.

I’m sorry monster company or not, Microsoft doesn’t emit any such things. Perhaps the odd tiny spark that dies before it even begins.

I very much doubt this news will effect Apple in the slightest. If they keep moving forward, offering great customer care then the people will continue to buy, because apple as pulled itself slowly and surely out of Microsoft’s shadow and now Microsoft are starting to feel the pressure somewhat.

Or will the Guru Bar simply be a place where you get a standard checklist of things to try when you get back home to your Compaq, and a suggestion to upgrade to Windows 7?

I don’t even care if they have gurus with IQs so high that their brains start seeping out of their ears or that they start offering PCs in white, silver or friggin’ mauve — if you like Windows and have never used Linux or Mac OS, then my friend, you can spend your entire earthly life as a closed-minded individual. What a waste of a life…spent updating patches, rebooting the machine, and upgrading virus definition files. LOL@YOU!

for all we know all these managers and staff were not actually working for apple anymore when they were contacted or they were folks who could legally walk (thus why we haven’t heard about any lawsuits). maybe they were actually folks Apple is happy to get rid of because they were lazy and ill tempered but never crossed the line of what they could actually be fired for.

and who knows if Microsoft is hiring only Apple folks as has been implied or peeps from several companies with all managers being told they are welcome to contact former co-workers/employees. it’s just that everyone is so Apple focused that they aren’t talking about the other companies

@Kevin B. yeah, a lot of folks dump serious on both sides. with the Apple and cost thing, there is what some call ‘The Apple Tax’ which I think is generally a BS comment. They act like Apple is marking stuff up just to do it. Forgetting that it’s not just the cost of the components in the math (although that’s generally all they talk about) there’s the cost of the software included, the cost of assembly and shipping, the cost of the staff in the stores and the online center and possibly warehouses/distribution centers, the overhead cost of the stores and so on. Each computer is not just the sum of the harddrive, the logic board and so on. Nothing in retail is. But some folks wanna try to put it that simple and say that Apple is just being greedy and that justifies making Hackintoshes, supporting folks like Psystar etc. but in reality “buying the brand” is more than just a markup cause the company can (that’s one part sure, but only one of several)

@spielbrot: if by ‘their product’ you mean their attitude toward what they make then yes. part of Apple’s success is that they don’t just cater to the whims of the vocal masses, they do what they feel is best when they feel it is best. Sometimes they falter, like with the firewire in the 13″ issue, but other times perhaps not. Sure they haven’t put built in Blu-Ray support in their machines, but perhaps this was as much about feeling the form wouldn’t stick as it was not wanting to pass on the added cost to the buyers. prior to the recent changes in licensing, they might not have been able to up the specs AND drop the price on their laptops. next go around things might be prime to at least make BR drives a custom switch on some or all machines. and who knows what else. but this is the way that Apple thinks, not just tossing it all at the wall like it feels the other hardware folks sometimes do. Of course we also have to keep in mind that Microsoft can not have the control over hardware that Apple can due to anti-trust issues that Apple’s low marketshare keeps them out of. And who knows, perhaps Windows 7 really is much better than Vista and Microsoft will be back in the game.

@nwintx: assuming this will fail could be wrong. it is possible that Microsoft has learned from their mistakes and from the successes of Apple and this could work on some level. maybe not the one they think but something. Remember that not everyone believed Apple’s stores would really work either and they were wrong.

@Michael: Like the ipod (especially the touch) and the iphone haven’t helped Apple weather the storm. heck the phone is probably the gateway drug for a solid third of the switchers coming in over the last couple of years. So if the Zune is what gets folks into the Microsoft store to see what’s up and they stick around instead of being across town to the Apple store for a Macbook and an ipod, Microsoft will likely call it a success.

@Foo Man Choo: you are correct and it is very possible that Microsoft is pulling from several companies. it’s just that it’s more fun to make it sound like they are trying to fill their stores with (only) Apple folks. so that’s what the webbies are focusing on

The reason the conversation veers into Mac vs PC is because this poaching episode speaks directly to Microsoft’s brand DNA. Microsoft = second-to-market, sloppy “me-too” Apple knock-offs. It makes good business sense only to those profiting from the short-sighted business model, but it does little to reassure Microsoft’s customers. It also proves that top brass at Microsoft believe the lie that Apple’s appeal is only skin deep. Instead of coming up with a unique recipe for success they’re going to try to pry it out of Apple’s elves.

Sure in the short run they will sell more Zunes in an aesthetically pleasing space than they do shoving them into the discount shelf at Sears, but they’ll still be selling Zunes.

Here is google poaching Yahoo employees:

http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/yahoo-search-engineers/

Anyway, If MS is poaching key people from Apple to help support planned retail outlets, then that’s probably smart business. I think MS has failed in the past mainly due unclear product branding and to some degree an ambivalence towards the level of product quality expected before customers, developers and hardware suppliers started to jump ship. Now they know. They can’t blame poor customer experience on ‘lack of drivers’ (someone else’s problem) because, at the end of the day, it is their responsibility for MS products to ‘work’.

Hopefully, Win 7 will be a turning point, not only in design and performance but with much tighter intergration of hardware and software than what has been offered by MS previously.. Something akin to OSX. No doubt time will tell.

I personally like the fact that Apple and MS are strong competitors. If not, Apple’s pricing would probably be twice high as it is now. Think about it.

To ensure a equal success for the copy/paste Stores, Microsoft need not only buy the staff, but also the content of Apple Stores including the products, quality, vision and image. And yes, dump their own products and idéas.

And one more thing, buy another Steve from Apple.
Money fixes all, right?

you don’t think Apple would be ‘competitive’ enough to actually reopen their store (probably bigger and better) on the same day as the Microsoft Grand Opening. And maybe even with something new and cool being recently released to draw folks in (release the Tablet that day as well and watch the fun begin. lol)

Unless of course managers are on some kind of legal non-compet. then again, the stores claim they aren’t told jack about upcoming stuff so if that is true,there is no real worry. Apple’s service style ain’t that different than many other places so it’s not a trade secret to protect

course when this experiment fails, they aren’t likely to all get their jobs back. oops. oh well

PC’s in most scenarios are great. However, with a Mac you can have both of the worlds. Install XP/Vista/Windows 7 onto it. When you need windows, switch to it, when you need mac, switch to it.

Simple as that. Besides, even some of the cheapest Apple laptops out power a lot of the PCs available. My old first generation intel iMac still runs Windows XP SP3 no problem, and can run Unreal Tournament 3 and a couple other games and such easily, it beats spending money to buy both a Mac and a PC. All you need is a new intel Macintosh and you can have both.

But the difference of the analogy is that a Porsche is going to cost ten thousand dollars or more than the Fiesta while the Mac will only cost a few hundred dollars more than the PC. For the level of attention to detail and quality that Apple provides in both the hardware and software… I think my credit card can handle the extra few hundred bucks.

Enjoy your clunker PC. Maybe you can spend the money you save on some virus software.

I would argue though that Apple’s value is more than perception. There is a reason Apple’s resale value on hardware is so high compared to similar PC systems. Their hardware and software works in a way that a lot of people really love. Sometimes perception is reality.

My problem with MS is that they just don’t seem to have an original idea ever. And this whole business poaching Apple managers is a real PR debacle.

Apple sells lifestyle on products that are a pleasure to use, heaven on earth. Can´t you get it Microsoft has no style no taste, just look at its CEO (get on your feet! Shame!

When Apple decides to drop the prices just like how the fan boys are willing to drop their pants, then they’d have a better argument. There is no real value, it’s perceived value. Talk to any Apple sales person and they just all spew the same thing even if you ask why pound for pound they charge significantly more for the same hardware specs. Apple is obviously making a killing off babies, they suckered them in with the commercials.

As for the knockers, you live in a country that declares itself as the land of the free. Conversely, as long as MS does not break any laws, so what?

Don’t get me wrong, I went through 12 years of hell on earth b4 I deserted the dark side. And my experience in the last 5 years means there’s no need to look back.

Microsoft on the other hand, has built its empire on cheap, clunky imitations of Apple. Their “laptop hunters” ad campaign is all about how you can get a Windows machine CHEAP! Microsoft is the Walmart of computing. So now Microsoft wants to undo the crappy rag-tag office-supply atmosphere on which they’ve proudly built their reputation.

I’m sorry Microsoft, but you can’t buy customer enthusiasm for products like Windows 7.

Microsoft on the other hand, has built its empire on cheap, clunky imitations of Apple. Their “laptop hunters” ad campaign is all about how you can get a Windows machine CHEAP! Microsoft is the Walmart of computing. So now Microsoft wants to undo the crappy rag-tag office-supply atmosphere on which they’ve proudly built their reputation.

I’m sorry Microsoft, but you can’t buy customer enthusiasm for products like Windows 7.

I just recalled the various independent Apple retailers and their stores of years ago. There was one in Chicago in Hyde Park which looked more like a used book store. No high volume or mass crowd appeal there!

Our Tampa Apple store just got renovated. It was store #8 when it opened years ago, and even it is now transformed to a more efficient format which better utilizes its square footage.

To me, the incessant MS copying of Apple simply betrays MS’s lack of spirit and direction. I’ll be interested to observe the reception Windoze 7 receives. If it tanks, I think we’re going to see a larger wave of switchers. Maybe Ballmer will cash in his chips, too.

It’s interesting that you refer to other commenters as “morons”, which I doubt you would do if they were standing right in front of you. Or perhaps you would. Everyone’s definition of civility is different, I suppose.

The point many people here are trying to make is that MS is not, as you say, “Copying other companies’ successes… .” MS is copying a strategy, and they are also now attempting to use not just Apple’s strategy, but their employees. That’s not copying success. That’s attempting to do almost exactly what Apple has done, and hoping it will be successful.

But Apple and Microsoft are very different companies. A strategy and an implementation that has worked very well for Apple will not necessarily lead to success for Apple. In fact, many of the same people who are now saying Microsoft’s copying of Apple will work are the same people who said Apple’s retail store strategy would never work. What they missed then and missed now is that Apple’s approach is highly tailored.

No need to be so condescending. Many of us Apple users love competition. Many of us were once Windows users, but defected as a result of the inferior products that we were using.

The issue here is innovation. Apple has always been an innovator. Microsoft has always stolen ideas, bought out the competition, or driven the competition into the ground with unfair marketing tactics. Maybe you need to suck-up into that little brain of yours that there are some who like quality and will settle for nothing less. It is your right as a consumer to purchase inferior hardware, driven by inferior software…enjoy it.

That’s really hilarious, fanboy. Read. Learn. Unfuck your brain.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/19/zune-hd-a-major-sellout/

So Microsoft is opening up a store. What are they planning to sell? Zunes? Windows 7? Xboxes?

No one wants a Zune. They can buy an iPod for the same price or less and have the same features or more.

How many copies of Windows 7 are hoping people are going to buy? They get a free copy with every new PC—and the new PC cost just a bit more than the upgrade.

In reality Microsoft has been and always will be in copycat mode. They remind me of the old Soviet Union who saw that the American’s had a space shuttle and wanted one so badly of their own that they actually built one for themselves. The problem was that the USSR had no purpose for a space shuttle and the USSR space shuttle was inferior to the American one (it had to be controlled from ground control–not the cosmonauts). In the end, they mothballed it after one inglorious flight.

So, Microsoft can steal all of the highly motivated Apple employees they want–aside from Steve Jobs. But without a clear vision and purpose, these people will just devolve into ordinary uninspired Microsoft drones.

But in reality, the best support comes from people who know a product inside and out. People who love products enough to work and play with them. So will Microsoft be forcing or highly recommending that former Apple Store employees purchase home machines and use them exclusively, at least until the know the same detail as their Macs. Or will employees work for Microsoft during the day, and go home to their Macs at night.

Of course, I’m still not certain what Microsoft will do with the stores anyway, since they don’t really do hardware (at least not the PC variety). How will they choose which vendors get displayed for computers? Will they support any PC even if the warranty is with Dell or HP and not Microsoft? or will visitors have to purchase a Microsoft support option.

Microsoft stores will probably do better then many people are suspecting, however I think they would have been making a better decision to tie them directally into other stores such as BestBuy or WalMart and mearly place boutiques near apple stores. (Pissing off that minority even more, I love people who bitch about “Evil Corperations” as they clearly have no idea how economics work ((and are probably poor)))

-4

It seems to me that if Microsoft is going to build its empire around an array of “partners” building WHQL-qualified hardware, that it isn’t right for them to cut and run at the first sign of customer distress – when it comes to software behavior.

Microsoft will probably have a tough time obtaining the same level of evangelistic zeal with people they pull over from Apple Stores. Better pay is good, but that’s not the only thing, or even the primary thing, that makes a motivated and successful manager.